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MARGARET WARNER: I sat down with Foreign Secretary Hammond earlier today, here in London.
Foreign Secretary Hammond, thank you for having us.
The coalition has been saying, really since the fall, that you have stopped the advance of the Islamic State in Iraq. But there are reports that in fact they’re gaining more territory in Syria. Is this broader mission against the Islamic State group turning into a stalemate in any way?
PHILIP HAMMOND: There are two parts to this mission.
There’s a military mission in Iraq and Syria to, first of all, halt and then gradually roll back ISIL’s presence on the ground. But we have to recognize and we have recognized in our discussions this morning that that is only the first stage. There is a very broad ideology here, which has created a brand, if you like, among international terrorist organizations, and that is starting to have effect in other countries as well.
We’re seeing ISIL appearing in West Africa, in North Africa, and manifestations of it elsewhere as well. So we have — we have to roll back ISIL in Iraq and Syria, but we shouldn’t delude ourselves that regaining control of the territory in Iraq and Syria is the end of the job.
MARGARET WARNER: Iraqi Prime Minister Abadi said yesterday he wants — he thinks the coalition’s been a little slow in getting him the training and equipment he needs for his ground forces. What is the holdup?
PHILIP HAMMOND: I understand Prime Minister’s al-Abadi’s impatience. Obviously, if any of us had half of our country occupied by a hostile force, we’d be anxious to get on with the job of reclaiming it.
But it’s important this work is done methodically, carefully, and when the Iraqi forces do make their move, they are successful, and decisively so. As Secretary Kerry said in the meeting just now, we cannot afford to fail.
MARGARET WARNER: And how long do you think before they will be ready?
PHILIP HAMMOND: Some time this year, the Iraqi forces are going to be ready, I would guess, to start making decisive moves against ISIL-held territory.
But I wouldn’t want to be more fine-grained than that. I wouldn’t want to say whether it’s going to be in the spring or in the fall.
MARGARET WARNER: Did the Paris attacks, some carried out by those claiming allegiance to an al-Qaida group, others by allegiance to ISIL, did that change the scope and the urgency of the overall effort of this coalition?
PHILIP HAMMOND: I don’t think it changes the urgency, but what it has done is reengaged European public opinion, certainly, post the Christmas-New Year break, reminding them how important this is, not just as an issue of foreign policy, but as an important issue for their own domestic security.
And we have to see this as an issue about the security of the Middle East, the security of North Africa, but also the security of our own homelands.
MARGARET WARNER: So what is the practical effect of your publics here in Europe being more engaged?
PHILIP HAMMOND: Well, the key important thing for us is that public opinion supports some of the measures that we need to take in order to make them safer.
There is always a tradeoff between the freedom, the free speech, the privacy agenda on the one hand and the security agenda on the other. And there are some things we need to do in Europe. For example, we need to introduce passenger name record information systems in Europe, the same way you have in the United States, so we know who’s on a plane before it arrives in our airports or in our airspace.
And I hope the events in Paris and in Belgium have decisively swayed public opinion in favor of sensible measures to make Europe safer as well.
MARGARET WARNER: Now, it was last September that all the countries in this coalition agreed to stop the flow of foreign fighters, their own citizens going over to fight.
Did anyone at the meeting today have any evidence that they actually have been successful in doing so?
PHILIP HAMMOND: Well, we have significant evidence because we know how many people are being interdicted from the U.K. here before they leave the country, at transit points in Europe — I was in Romania and Bulgaria last week, both countries which are used by U.K. foreign fighters heading to Turkey and then on to Syria — and at the Turkish border.
The Turkish prime minister this morning has said, correctly, that he can’t seal the border between Turkey and Syria. It’s too complex a border for that. We have to help them by making sure that we deal with the transit points, we deal with our own ports of exit. But the Turks are doing a great job.
MARGARET WARNER: In both the U.S. and in the U.K., the public is weary of war, and in both of our countries, leaders made moves to get out of Iraq, pretty soon out of Afghanistan.
In retrospect, do you think we underestimated the degree to which Islamic extremism was just going to reappear in another form as an adversary to the West, in this case as the Islamic State?
PHILIP HAMMOND: Well, I think the lesson is that there is a pervasive ideology here. It’s only shared by a small number of people, but it is attractive to a certain group, particularly young people who feel disenfranchised in their societies.
And it will pop up wherever the state is weak and there is ungoverned space for it to flourish. I’m afraid, when we succeed militarily against ISIL in Iraq and Syria, that won’t be the end of the problem. There will be failed states elsewhere. There are failed states elsewhere where ISIL or associated organizations, like Boko Haram in Northern Nigeria, will pop up to perpetrate this fight.
So we are in a generational struggle against an ideology which is a perversion of Islam, a peaceful religion, and which we have to deal with at all levels. We have to deal with its military manifestation, but we have to also tackle the ideology. We have to take it head on. We have to challenge it, and we have to defeat it in argument, as well as by force of arms.
MARGARET WARNER: And the American and British public have to be ready for that?
PHILIP HAMMOND: Eventually, we will resolve this situation, but we have to be prepared for the long haul.
MARGARET WARNER: Foreign Secretary Hammond, thank you so much.
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